To DKP or not to DKP that is the question.

[GreenUndo]

I think this problem (as it is a problem atm) can be solved from two angles.

1. Players want gear and want an even chance on getting it.
2. The guild needs players that are geared equally so the guild can progress

Most of the solutions I've seen are from the first point of view.

As many of you know, I like to view things from a guild point of view. Meaning:
1. The ML needs to know about gear as he/she will compare the gear from the people that want it for main spec and will then give it to the one he/she thinks the guild will be best served for.
2. If there are pug, they can only get loot if noone in the guild needs it.
3. If people feel they have been treated unfairly, a commission will review the case and pass verdict. If it needs to be changed, the ML can create a ticket.

Yes, there are a lot of things wrong with this system (even tho i didnt explain it fully) but I think progression will be ensured and people cant get overgeared too much. If a nice mail head drops and we have (for example) 3 hunters wanting it, check the gear and the stats... if 2 hunters have 3k RAP and one has 2.7k and it is an improvement, give it to the 2.7k one so he comes up to the others...

[Raia - The Flimsy Rogue]

Raincloud wrote:

Iehi wrote: Sohai wrote: The reason i say so is to reduce numbers of the slacker or freeloader. For those who really enjoy raiding or wanna progress, I believed that using the DKP or EPGP system will protect their own efforts and it's fair enough to loot while they attend the raids often. :P So the result the ones that do not raid as much get nothing........

Indeed! That is why I am against DKP!

If any sort of points are gonna be used, Ilike Irinias system alot better, as you then will only have max 2 tokens!

Those who don't raid 2-4 times a week are NOT slackers and freeloaders!
RMWP has NEVER been and hopefully it will never be a hardcore raiding-guild! Those who belive so, and/or wanna raid with DKP, I suggest find themselves another guild!

[Freyathre]

The problem as I see it is that the ones who raid more like casual, lets say once a week is against because they feel their own progress is threatened. These guys dont have to be freeloaders or slacker, just normal guys with life besides WoW.

If we use a point system with a limit for let say 3 raids. If you havent used your points in 3 raids the get resetted back to 0 no matter what. That way even the slackers can get stuff...

Am I totally off here?

[Raincloud The Spiritual One]

But then how do people get judged as freeloaders or slackers when this is a game not a job. You play for fun because you want to not because you are told to.

[GreenUndo]

IF you want a point system, Irinia's system sounds very good. Like Sommer said you might argue that DKP is the same but to me there are differences.

This token system has small numbers which I think is important as that makes it less flexible. Only thing you can do is raise the limit and make items cost more tokens. The latter is what DKP is made for. You can 'sell' the item for whatever amount is deemed fair. Because people get DKP per hour/kill, the amount payable can vary a lot and might disgruntle some people.

Not that I'm against different item costs. I'd like to make 3 changes to that system as proposed:
1. Max tokens raised to 3
2. 'Normal' epics cost 1 token, tier epics cost 2 tokens.
3. Tokens are bound to a specific raid.

If we try a raid for the first time, tier tokens will still cost 2 tokens but it will be allowed to have a -1 token standing.

Obviously, mainspec bids outbid offspec bids and pugs can have items when the Pinkies don't need them.

I know keeping track of everything will cost someone a lot of time but it is worth it in my humble opinion.

[Soinata]

Hi Binos here.

All i can say is that i wanna try DKP like a month or two. Hellas says its making peoplemore tense and that. (excuse my bad english).

What i mean is i can understand what hellas i pointing out. But would be an experience to see what DKP is like, But in my point of view i could bet all my DKP on one gear i really want because its really important to me (talking about a big upgrade) and i cant really do that with just a roll... some1 else maybe already got a really good wrist and just roll cause its a little better stats... and then i dont wanna whine about that. becuase its not really that important to complain about it

But I like whatever, rolls have its charm in many ways aswell ^^!
Cheers for taking this vote up! I will stay RMWP whatever. But my Vote should be lets try it atleast. because i think many are like me. Have heard about it but not experienced it.

But if it´s gonna be like Hellas is pointing out. Then i say trash DKP :P
Cheers again! (hope you understand something of my reply ;) )

[Raincloud The Spiritual One]

Soinata wrote:

i could bet all my DKP on one gear i really want because its really important to me (talking about a big upgrade)

And when whould you next upgrade in gear be? weeks maybe months to get more dkp above another player and repeat process = gearing up taking a hell of a log time or...Mainspec/Offspec Roll system people all gear up evenly even though mainspec gets priority but then it is a steady progression for gearing up as well as having fun and enjoying the raid while not getting stressed about how much dkp this will this drop stress stress stress.

[Nidhogg1]

Hmm, I'll go with Binos. I dont have time to raid a lot, but I do have time to farm mats/gold (1 hour now and then during a day). These I use to buy better gear, and then sometimes, when the SHE allows me (she's working nights :-) ) I'll be able to raid.

Many times I just skip the roll on stuff that are just above current gear, as I figure others might have better use for it. But I would really love to be able to better my chances when THE item drops, that are so much better then the crafted one/badge one. So I say lets try a 3 point system and see how it works.

And then my usually itch..
Can we please get the rules written down, so there will be no misunderstandings.
That would go for guildkicks as well, buying stuff for Guild bank and other rules that may apply.

Please, please,please :-)

[Valinn]

I know I'm not a member, but I thought I'd throw this your way:

http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/suicide-kings.aspx

Guide:
http://www.blackcompanywow.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=429&sid=96d2e415196ac590c51444d4ff483ce9

FAQ:
http://www.blackcompanywow.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=156&sid=96d2e415196ac590c51444d4ff483ce9

We used this in Jubjub, and it was fine.

Anyway, just thought you might want another suggestion thrown into your already full cauldron.

Good luck with your...stuff.
Val'.

[GreenUndo]

Nidhogg1 wrote:

Can we please get the rules written down, so there will be no misunderstandings. That would go for guildkicks as well, buying stuff for Guild bank and other rules that may apply. Please, please,please :-)

Think Nid hit the nail on the head... where does the leadership stand on pugging raids 'higher' then our progress raids? Or any raid for that matter?

I know the time of the year sucks for putting in time into wow but writing stuff down will clear things up for everyone.

[Nidhogg1]

A crazy idea just hit me
The goal is to gear guild up so that we can have more fun doing raids.
What if (and this would suit casuals as myselft I know)

If, for instance I donate a http://www.wowhead.com/?item=42644 to guildbank, and as a "reward" get a pink token? This can ofc be applicable for other types of crafted items that are high on the gear list. And some items needed for some bosses, like +frost restitance and so on..

This will make it possible for those that dont raid much to get rewarded for the work they but in. And help us gear up the guild a little faster

As I said, it's just an idea, not very well thought through.....

[Raincloud The Spiritual One]

Yet that would seem unfair as some can craft high lvl gear and some not

[Raia - The Flimsy Rogue]

Raincloud wrote:

Yet that would seem unfair as some can craft high lvl gear and some not

Because some has bothered to level up a craftingskill, and others was to lazy... Even if I'm not sure how this would work out, I do not see the suggestion unfair in any matter!

[Nidhogg1]

Didnt mean it to be unfair. Its just means to gear up a guild. Thats the main idea. But ofc I can sell my items at AH, and get gold. But I would like to share the crafting items I can make so the guild progress. It can be used on mats as well? Most of us have some skills that are nice. One can even sell enchants at AH now, he he. One expensive enchant = 1 pink point?? And if the Guild sells them cheap, we get money to repair!! hey ho

Not sure if its a good idea, but it might work, since we have different types of players. Some raid a lot, some just have time for an hour now and then, and some dont have much time at all. The main goal is to keep them all happy

[GreenUndo]

i like the idea but it has to be worked out... what is worth a pink point and whats not... does the max pink points remain 2 or 3... and more stuff like that...

but as i said, i like the idea!