Ulduar 25 - Thurs 23 April

[Bizzmark]

We where not prepared.



OK – that hurt!!!

Ulduar 25 man is to be taken seriously. We where well and truly thumped last night …. BY TRASH.

Yup, after downing the very easy Flame Leviathan, we approached XT with cocky confidence…. A wipe fest followed on the trash before the boss and after a half hearted attempt at Razorscale the severely bruised Pinkies called it a night.

A couple of major concerns.

Many people who signed up, arrived late or not at all.
We had to fill up the 25 with guildies who where not geared up enough. Where the hell is our core 25 from Naxx, have we really lost that many active raiders?

It is clear that we need to get the regular raiders back into the swing of things and also assist the lesser geared guild members with gearing up.

That said, many of the newer members displayed very worrying character traits last night. “Cry’s of this is to hard, lets try something else”, lot’s of indiscipline, not listening to raid leader.. etc. I for one am concerned about gearing up people who are not going to pull there weight and simply give up every time we wipe.

Ulduar 25 is brilliant. At last we have an instance we need to respect. (The 25 man is harder than the 10, unlike Naxx)

The people who are going to raid Ulduar 25 on a regular basis are going to have to display dedication and commitment.

[b]If you want to be part of the 25 man team you need to:[/b]

* Ensure that you are max geared up via Naxx 25.
* Have money for repairs – so mine, herb, trade or sell Cyber Favours in Goldshire. (You will need at least 150 – 300g a night for repairs and buff potions)
* Watch tactic videos, read tactics, and be prepared. ( I believe we need to approach this on a boss by boss basis at first – not just say we are doing Ulduar, rather say – tonight we are targeting XT – every single person research XT tactics.)
* Make sure that you have a serious sense of humour and that you are prepared to wipe repeatedly until we figure the fight out…. Not give up after 5 or undefined6 wipes.

** EDIT.. after a lot of constructive discussion, the above comments where really misplaced. All of this is covered very well in our COC.

We have a great team and if we keep having fun then thats all we really need.



In addition, the Lawsuit brought against us by the gnomes has been temporarily withdrawn pending a settlement – we are still in intensive negotiations. As a conciliatory gesture, the Gnome community has shared a secret dish with us, Sushi al la Gnomeregan. Ashwyni has kindly made this for us on a few occasions and unsurprisingly, this fish feast, is Gnome free.

[whitemikki]

This for me is a truly worrying post. There are so many different things that need to come together to make a proper Raid work that people underestimate what needs to happen for a Raid into content of this type to work......Ill try and break it down but if I am honest the members who are on-line reading the post here are not the sort of members that need telling.

First lets break down the components.....

Gear, Tactics, Cooperation, Execution and Attitude. And how does this break down...IMO something like this.....

Gear 10%
Tactics 20%
Cooperating 15%
Execution 20%
Attitude 35%

Now is Naxx we had the luxury of undertuned, Basic tactic encounters. Pinkies have got laid back and lazy.
If all the bosses are going down why do I need to enchant my new pieces?
If bosses are going down why do i need to make sure my rotations are sharp for a few xtra hundred DPS?
Why put in a few xtra hours finding out what is the best DPS/Healing/Tanking Spec for my class if the bosses are going down?

Take the 5 areas i have listed above and in Naxx you needed a team to be 60% efficient an the bosses would still drop. What happened when the only challenge of T7 was taken on?? We quit!!! We made our excuses, Not enough Gear, Bad composition. The truth? The truth was half the team didn't have what it takes!! As soon as the team needed to be 90%+ efficient we fell very short.
You need to have patience to learn the tactics properly!!! Not just 20 of the team but all 25 executing to the best of there ability, Pulling out the maximum DPS possible while hitting the tactics assigned by the RL and even then it will go wrong. And you start again and keep going till you get it right. Because Ulduar EVERY boss is going to need not only the individual but the Team to be at 90%+.

In short, If you don't have the patience to say "We will be doing X boss tonight and will wipe on hin for 4 hour or until we get it right" don't sign for the Raids. If you are content to sit in Dalaran feeling good about yourself in your Naxx Welfare Epics with Champion of the Frozen Waste above your head then maybe you and RMWP have run your course. Because with all the perfect gear and all of us pulling out our best DPS/Healing/Tanking we will still wipe for hours until we first LEARN the tactics then HOW to execute them.

Yes we are a Fun loving guild. But NEVER has RMWP hit content it could not do. YES we got there and wiped. We wiped for weeks on end but we kept going back until the bastards went down.

Are we a casual guild? NO. We are a guild that allows Casual Raiders. There is a difference. Casual Guilds wont clear Ulduar. We will.

So while we are wiping and your Officers are learning the Tactics ask yourself this.........

Am I doing the Best DPS, Threat Generation or Healing I can??
Am I hitting the tactics laid out by the RL to perfection??

The answer should always be NO. Cos we can all improve. We can all learn from each other and external sources like ElitistJerks.com and others. As raiders you worry about the individual and let Taker take care of rest. Be under no illusions, Taker and his fellow Officers is putting in Many Hours and week in making sure the team is ready but they cannot change your attitude only you can.

I am sorry for the tine of the post but its a simple truth that needs saying.

Mikki

[Nidhogg1]

[Bizzmark]

Nidhogg1 wrote:

I'm getting more and more signals that focus are more on progression than fun. If this continues, I'm not sure this is my kind of guild anymore. Sorry, but that needs to be said as well.

Hi Nid,

I really hope my posts do not make you feel this way. Your input on vent and the forums always brings a sense of calm and good nature to what ever we are discussing.

The most important point I wanted to address in my post, (and in fact Mikki's post seemed to convey the same)

Is attitude. We do want progression, but the way we get there still very much matters.

To raid with a smile on our face, live and learn from the wipes ... and have a bucket load of laughs, thats the PINK way.

What is not PINK, in my opinion, and what is causing a lot of frustration is the lack of commitment (signed people arriving late or not at all), little effort in getting the basic raid stuff prepared (some tactics, buff stuff) and most frustratingly the apparent expectation that the boss must be killed in 5-6 attempts.... it just feels as if we are giving up to easily.... at least thats my view.

[whitemikki]

Its a balance mate and we will get it right.

Its at times like this that the balance is hard to find. But my mail is asking people to get there own attitude to Raiding right.
To stick with the RLs and Officers and focus.

Its a vicous circle. Raiders get short tempered and moan cos the boss isnt going dawn in the first few attempts. RL and Officers get annoyed that the Raiders dont have patience to keep trying and it gets on top.
My reply to Bizzmarks post is about approaching raiding with the right attitude. Not about the feel of the Raid. The Raidleaders, Officers & Members all together make a Raid feel fun weather Downing Bosses or Wiping. For me I enjoy Raiding no mattter what happens as long as i am with my friends and its light hearted.

But also if Raiders are mixing up having fun with not pulling your weight there is a problem.........I find it hard to explain but perhaps like this.....

I sing, i tell jokes and have a laugh at all times. But I listen to the RL and focus my hardest when it comes to execution. I get annoyed with myself everytime I mess up my rotation cos i know it means a drop in DPS. I get annoyed with myself IF a person dies and I had a GCD available that could have saved him.

When we fail to kill a boss i am not annoyed. I accept and move on. As long as we learn and improve with every try I stay happy. But if we as a group or an individuel keep making the same mistake eventually ill say. "Come on Guys we are better than this"....You also habe the night after 2 hours of Raidng a Healer was bottom of the healing charts, not a problem someone has to be bottem, but was like 5/6% less than the others. We had wiped a few times and i asked him. "Mate wtf are your numbers so poor??" to be given the reply....sry i have been chatting with my GF on MSN all night...........I could have screamed!!!

So you see its a balance. Yes we can be relaxed and have fun but also we need to focus and progress. At times we have to say....where, how and why are we going wrong. and even who?

But when all is said and done I dont agree at any time with Anger or agression over vent as it will never get us anywhere.

Mikki

[Deum]

Actually, the reason I didn't show was because I was under the impression it was cancelled, due to the conversations that were happening in Vent the night before?

I thought Ulduar 25 was on hold until we'd got the core 10 through and out the other side. Maybe others thought this too?

I was obviously mistaken, sorry guys :<

[S0mmer]

whitemikki wrote:

Its a balance mate and we will get it right.

/wave

I heard those trash are super hard

I think it's not a bad idea to get an elite group for progression content. Taking VERY casual players to progression raids might ruin the fun for everyone. Casual players may find it too military, while hard core players might think casuals aren't taking it seriously. There's no right or wrong. It's just you'll get maximum fun playing with similar-minded players.

As for the yelling on vent, Nid, Deeth is just loud.

[Tha-Taker]

perfectly stated sommer :P

DEETH STOP WITH THE TBAGS PLOX

[Nidhogg1]

The last posts are more in line with the Pink feeling I got to know and love.

Sommer, you should only know how nice it is to know that you are watching over us, and drop in and give us some nice, much needed waves every now and then. Hope life is treating you well.

[dacce]

I WANT SOMMER BACK

i have a few T-bags with your name on them mate :P

but i hope everything is going well for you mate

anyway onto the raid side of things, guys, this guild has always been about having fun while we play, now in 10 man stuff thats easy, we can have a giggle and a laugth with ease, just ask the taker how often i T-bag or mention certain things that people would like to forget (LOOK OUT FOR THAT LEDGE), the reason for this is that there are only 10 of us there.

Now 25 man runs are another thing entirly, if the instance is easy like naxx or a tbc one then the giggles and jokes can still flow but....... Uld isn't easy as you found out last night, when was the last time we wiped on trash ?. 25 man runs take a lot of organising (if u think 25's are bad think what the 40's were like) and when your trying to explain tactics over vent it can be very hard when people are intrupting with comments or jokes and it can draw out the explanation as well, by all means whisper ur mates and take the mikey out of them, compare dps/healing as long as ur paying attention to whats required of us by our glourious cross dressing taker (by cross dressing i mean dps/tank dressing), if anyone has a question nagg the officers its what they are there for (be warned if u nag me you might get a T-bag or two )

now because this place is so hard (Yippee) we are going to wipe and wipe a lot, nearly a year ago a few members of this guild found ourselves stuck at a certain point in ZA, we kept wiping at the same boss, now the reason for this might have been gear or tactics but we kept coming back having a giggle at the miss pulls and the wipes and after a month we got the boss down for the first time, and the feeling was brilliant, lots of cheers over vent and within a couple of weeks of getting the git down we cleared ZA for the first time

what i'm trying to say is this is the pink attitude, just because we wipe we don't throw teddy out of the cot, we look at what we done then we go back and try again and agin and again till we get the git down and the feeling when you do this is brilliant, just ask the silly buggers who spents a month in ZA on the 3rd boss

your loving T-bagger

Deeth

[Irinia]

I just have to say that I had a real blast last night. Flame Leviathan was even more fun in 25 man than in 10. The best part for me was when I had him chasing me twice and I was sure I was going to die but didn't. (Thanks to Thunderwrath for speed boost and for the awesome tar laying from the motorcycles)

Anyway, I really enjoyed seeing the other content too even if we wiped. We can't expect to just walk in there and run through it like Naxx, and I don't really think anyone does. I also loved to see Razorscale pinned down by the harpoons even if we weren't close to killing him.

Ulduar is a real challenge to us all as individuals, as a group and as raid and guild leaders. We have to work together and help each other get better at all these tasks. As we do this we must not be too hard on each other and especially for you officers and raid leader(s), not too hard on yourselves.